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Musical garbage?
"How many of us just think that a good song is a good song, no matter how simple or complicated it is?" Well, what I personally have been puzzling over is that I actually agree (in general) with many of the musical snobs who will declare that a certain song is "crap" artistically. This is actually the other side of the coin where (particularly musicians) declare another piece or song high art. I thought perhaps to point to that category of songs that are undeniably well-contructed, where there’s even a sort of "art" (or craft) to their construction and the emotional cylinders they fire. I know of no Jazz or classical musician who will declare "Uptown Girl" as high art. But why? Does it all boil down to "if you like it then it’s good"? I don’t think I agree with this statement (even if I’d like to be that openminded about other people’s pleasure). As evidence, consider that no human being has ever put on a Britney Spears record and just sat there listening to it, without text their friends or doing something. A strange byproduct of this musical prejudice is in the form of my 14-year-old son. As he grew up I actually consciously made sure I didn’t declare any music to be "crap" or "sucks". But also, particularly in the car, I’ve always had excellent music playing. When he was 5 or 6 I was playing Trey Gunn’s Joy of Molybdenum (I think it was) and he’d say "Play Trey Gunn!" Or Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan or (much more recently), Bowie. He’s seen Steve Reich play Music for 18 Musicians(!), Bjork, Richard Thompson and Steely Dan. And yet, he will now readily declare lots of pop tunes sucky, or if (on the news) they mention, "Coming up, Justin Beiber" he’ll quickly add, "Sucks!" He is strangely opinionated even though I tried very hard not to let him see this part of me. No doubt he has absorbed some of my personality traits, but I also can’t help thinking that exposure to quality music has given him the "gift" of recognizing that some music is just artistically better than other music. But what that means ("artistically better") I don’t seem to have the words for. Prog & Pop
How many of us just think that a good song is a good song, no matter how simple or complicated it is? PROG X POP
Dan Anderson wrote: "I love it when proggies begin to talk about pop music. I am a diehard proggie/ adventurous jazzer type and remember spouting off about how pop music was a narcotic to dumb down the masses and so forth. Well, I got better. There is some intelligent life out there in the forms of Steely Dan, Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel and some others whom I begrudgingly acknowledge. I still don’t listen to much pop music but when I do, I try to listen to the above and yes, Billy Joel makes the list as well...." Congratulations Dan. I liked what you wrote. I have some proggie friends here in Brazil whose pick-up needles are stuck in PROG RECORDS ONLY and can’t hear about anything else other than PROG ITSELF. Wanna make them furious? Talk about a POP band... they take POP as an insult. So I urge you and everybody here as well, if you have a chance, to experience some POP music which is really sophisticated and highly melodic: SWING OUT SISTER : Somewhere Deep In The Night / Kaleidoscope World / Get In Touch With Yourself / It’s Better To Travel / Where Our Love Grows / Filth & Dreams. THOMAS DOLBY: The Flat Earth / Aliens Ate My Buick / Astronauts And Heretics / The Gate To The Mind’s Eye. PREFAB SPROUT: Two Wheels Good / Jordan The Comeback / Andromeda Heights / Swoon / From Langley Park To Memphis / The Gunman & Other Stories. KATE BUSH: Never For Ever / The Dreaming / Hounds Of Love / Lion Heart / The Sensual World / The Kick Inside. TEARS FOR FEARS : Songs From The Big Chair / The Seeds Of Love / Raoul And The Kings Of Spain. SADE: Promisse / Diamond Life / Stronger Than Pride / Love De Luxe. Bowie The new Bowie song is wonderful, and one of the first things that struck me was the gorgeous floating bass line. Had a mooch through Google trying to find out who was playing, with no luck. I then popped into DGM and, lo and behold, discovered that Tony Levin is responsible. I’m embarrassed I didn’t immediately recognise the Bottom-end Genius’s tasteful and masterful playing. Great
Later on, I will ramble on about why it is interesting and fun to try to figure out why we like certain songs (without overloading the board). The new Bowie masterwork "Where are we now?" certainly has the bittersweet feeling that I find in my favorite songs. Bowie’s song is brooding at the start and seems to meditate on times and places that are lost. But, in the end, it reaches a kind of hopeful affirmation. Pop & Proggies... Yeehah! I love it when proggies begin to talk about pop music. I am a diehard proggie/ adventurous jazzer type and remember spouting off about how pop music was a narcotic to dumb down the masses and so forth. Well, I got better. There is some intelligent life out there in the forms of Steely Dan, Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel, and some others whom I begrudgingly acknowledge. I still don’t listen to much pop music but when I do, I try to listen to the above and yes, Billy Joel makes the list as well. Now back to Nik Bartsch’s Ronin. Yum! Uptown Bollocks
"Uptown Girl is a *great* song that is really enjoyable" Well, on one level I agree. It’s a phenomenally well-crafted song. It seems to come from nowhere, as if that song couldn’t have been anything else. Kinda like Mozart in that regard (a composer I don’t particularly care for, however). But here’s my question to you: Have you ever actually sat down between stereo speakers and just *listened* to it (ie, without washing your car or taking a dump)? I’m not trying to challenge you or anything, I am truly curious whether a fellow CrimFan(TM) could actually hear this song as true music (as opposed to tolerable background silence-blocking). Arguably, any music this well constructed has to be music to somebody, perhaps, but I’ve never encountered that person yet. More than happy also to not talk about it anymore, but I admit it’s a puzzle and enigma for me to hear extremely well-made music and yet sometimes hate it. (In my defence Glenn Gould once stated that ’Mozart was not a very good composer’.) good/bad
Why get tied up in whether the music is "good" or not? What each of us considers "good" (which really is just our personal list of things we like that are not on our personal list of things we dislike) is an entirely subjective debate. Uptown Girl Uptown Girl is a *great* song that is really enjoyable. And I’m not particularly concerned whether you respect my musical point of view, level of ability, whathaveyou, or not, because it’s a bollocks reason to attach more credence to my like/dislike of the song. Where are we now? Thanks for the heads up about this terrific new Bowie song. It has intervened at exactly the right moment in our discussion about "what makes great pop music." Away with you, Uptown Girl; we need not debate your shiny and shallow charms any longer. That’s where we are now! << Previous 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 Next >> |
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