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Great
:: Posted by albemuth on January 09, 2013

Later on, I will ramble on about why it is interesting and fun to try to figure out why we like certain songs (without overloading the board).  The new Bowie masterwork "Where are we now?" certainly has the bittersweet feeling that I find in my favorite songs.  Bowie’s song is brooding at the start and seems to meditate on times and places that are lost.  But, in the end, it reaches a kind of hopeful affirmation. 

(Remember the Philip K. Dick book I take my name from, where the "true god" is trying to communicate with a fallen world through secret messages sown into pop culture.)

Bowie has done this kind of song before.  Under Pressure comes to mind, as does Heroes.  But take a look at the Guardian today and see the "Hip" cover design for Bowie’s new album, which is simply text written on a white square superimposed over one of his classic album covers, which I think we will all recognize!

Pop & Proggies...
:: Posted by DanAnderson on January 09, 2013

Yeehah! I love it when proggies begin to talk about pop music. I am a diehard proggie/ adventurous jazzer type and remember spouting off about how pop music was a narcotic to dumb down the masses and so forth. Well, I got better. There is some intelligent life out there in the forms of Steely Dan, Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel, and some others whom I begrudgingly acknowledge. I still don’t listen to much pop music but when I do, I try to listen to the above and yes, Billy Joel makes the list as well. Now back to Nik Bartsch’s Ronin. Yum!

Uptown Bollocks
:: Posted by emory0 on January 09, 2013

"Uptown Girl is a *great* song that is really enjoyable"

Well, on one level I agree. It’s a phenomenally well-crafted song. It seems to come from nowhere, as if that song couldn’t have been anything else. Kinda like Mozart in that regard (a composer I don’t particularly care for, however). But here’s my question to you:

Have you ever actually sat down between stereo speakers and just *listened* to it (ie, without washing your car or taking a dump)? I’m not trying to challenge you or anything, I am truly curious whether a fellow CrimFan(TM) could actually hear this song as true music (as opposed to tolerable background silence-blocking). Arguably, any music this well constructed has to be music to somebody, perhaps, but I’ve never encountered that person yet.

More than happy also to not talk about it anymore, but I admit it’s a puzzle and enigma for me to hear extremely well-made music and yet sometimes hate it. (In my defence Glenn Gould once stated that ’Mozart was not a very good composer’.)

good/bad
:: Posted by writingmiles on January 09, 2013

Why get tied up in whether the music is "good" or not? What each of us considers "good" (which really is just our personal list of things we like that are not on our personal list of things we dislike) is an entirely subjective debate.

It doesn’t matter if you like it or not. Does it (a) move you, and (b) is it creative? Is the music being informed by an impulse that is higher, and is the ego in service to that impulse in the composition and performance?

Uptown Girl
:: Posted by writingmiles on January 09, 2013

Uptown Girl is a *great* song that is really enjoyable. And I’m not particularly concerned whether you respect my musical point of view, level of ability, whathaveyou, or not, because it’s a bollocks reason to attach more credence to my like/dislike of the song.

Where are we now?
:: Posted by albemuth on January 09, 2013

Thanks for the heads up about this terrific new Bowie song.  It has intervened at exactly the right moment in our discussion about "what makes great pop music."  Away with you, Uptown Girl; we need not debate your shiny and shallow charms any longer.  That’s where we are now!  

another turn
:: Posted by Undisciplined on January 08, 2013

Carnamagos wrote:

To proceed from the fact of disliking one pop star to "dismissing everything pop" requires a logical leap of considerable magnitude.

For the rest, here’s a tip, one that think I recall having made here before: When criticizing others, it’s better not to embody the qualities you are criticizing.

As long as there’s going to be free (and probably unwelcome) advice being dispensed, maybe there’s room for more.  So, here goes: It’s better not to overreact in response to trivial matters.

Pop rocks
:: Posted by emory0 on January 08, 2013

What about Abbey Road by the Beatles? A lot of this is arguably pop and not rock, and yet 95% of it is, I think, without question of real artistic merit.

But what about something without obvious artistic merit, but is well-formed pop perfection all the same? What about Uptown Girl?

Arguably, Uptown Girl belongs in a category that also contains graphic arts and even advertising. It’s music that performs a function and performs it really well, but I doubt anybody’s life was ever changed by it. But you can tap your foot to it, you can whistle it (and everyone around you will know what you’re whistling), and it’s performed well (ie, with that Doo-Woop-y chorus reminiscent of Frankie Vallie). It reflects a form of genius (ie, of Billy Joel’s songwriting skills), but I can’t stand listening to it, and I doubt there exists anyone in the world whose musical opinion I respect who has actually sat through it and claims they really like the song.

And yet, does writing it off as "crap" really capture the magnificent power of this piece of crap?

Mederic Collignon/ KC
:: Posted by DanAnderson on January 08, 2013

I downloaded the Collignon cover of Crim tunes. Nicely done and heartily endorsed!

POP x ROCK
:: Posted by GonzalezPaulo on January 08, 2013

Until recent years, here in Brazil there was a strong "school of thinking" which had sprang out of the early 80’s new wave brazilian music press and which had survived throughout until recently. It still exists, but in a less radical way.  This "school of thinking" heralded that  "Everything ROCK was good, while all POP was crap"  (Prog-ROCK not included).

As far as I am concerned, I think people who believes this cliche needs a doctor. Being a ROCK fan since the 70’s I can point hundreds of great PROG-ROCK albums by YES, KING CRIMSON, ELP, VAN DER GRAAF, PINK FLOYD, PFM, GENESIS, UK, FOCUS, STEVE HACKETT, etc, etc, etc,,.

But I can also point hundreds of POP albums which are as good (if not better) as any ROCK albums. Here’s some exemples of sophisticated and beautiful POP:

SWING OUT SISTER : Somewhere Deep In The Night / Kaleidoscope World / Get In Touch With Yourself / It’s Better To Travel / Where Our Love Grows / Filth & Dreams.

THOMAS DOLBY: The Flat Earth / Aliens Ate My Buick / Astronauts And Heretics / The Gate To The Mind’s Eye.

PREFAB SPROUT: Two Wheels Good / Jordan The Comeback / Andromeda Heights / Swoon / From Langley Park To Memphis / The Gunman & Other Stories.

KATE BUSH: Never For Ever / The Dreaming / Hounds Of Love / Lion Heart / The Sensual World / The Kick Inside.

TEARS FOR FEARS : Songs From The Big Chair / The Seeds Of Love / Raoul And The Kings Of Spain.

SADE: Promisse / Diamond Life / Stronger Than Pride / Love De Luxe.

WILLIAM MICHAEL LEWIS & LAURIN RINDER: Seven Deadly Sins / Warriors.

EL COCO: Let’s Get It Together / Caravan / Cocomotion / Dancing In Paradise.

LE PAMPLEMOUSSE: Le Spank.

SAINT TROPEZ: Je T’aime.

I don’t mean to offend anyone’s musical tastes, but I can also point some awful ROCK made by THE SEX PISTOLS, RAMONES, U2, NIRVANA, etc, etc, etc,,,

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