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Thoughts on a few threads
:: Posted by caseyjbye on November 16, 2014

Thought Iíd throw my two cents into some of these discussions.

The lying thing, I think, like many are saying, isnít about lying in oneís personal life or even using lies to heighten a reality in a more digestible package--using lies to clarify truth (like Wildeís amazing "The Decay of Lying" essay or through hyperbolic about your experiences like Tom Waits does to better serve the world created in his art). Lying, as an artist simply to make money, being untrue to oneself--selling out, in essence--would be the problem. For example, it makes very little sense to judge an artistís work based on their personal lives (where, for example, they could be liars about all sorts things, even criminal liars). It doesnít make me enjoy Chinatown any less to know the horrifying things Roman Polanski has done in his life. I wrote an article about this earlier this year when the whole Woody Allen controversy came up, if anyone is interested: http://www.praguerevue.com/ViewArticle?articleId=3987

As a matter of fact (shameless plug) I wrote a tongue in cheek article proclaiming my love of all things Crimson and Prog for the same journal. Some of my fellow Crim-heads here, especially if youíve ever tried to get a friend or girlfriend into Crimson and failed might actually get a kick out of it: http://www.praguerevue.com/ViewArticle?articleId=2140

On "Coda: Marine 475": Mathusela, Iíve always loved the way Crimson, in the truest sense of minimalism, can take a relatively simple theme and seemingly beat it into the ground yet somehow make it constantly changing for the ear. Iíve never seen charts of the song, but I think part of it has to do with the variations occurring over the descending bassline. So for example, when Frippís guitar begins ascending, it affects the way you hear the descending pattern thatís been repeating as if itís actually gotten lower.

It probably also has something to do with the range of both Tony and Treyís instruments that they may be augmenting the lowest bass note by additionally doubling the descending notes say 2 keys higher, then 1 key higher. Also, the way Belew keeps just thraking away on that jangly chord based on the root notes of the key is deceptive because some of the bass notes are outside of the standard Pentatonic scale most of our Western ears are used to.

So sometimes they feel like "grace" notes (as you might hear in jazz--a note thatís out of the standard key) sort of assisting the progression into the resolving note (basically, our ears are anticipating the next note). And as the bass progression does nothing but descend the scale (no notes alter to suddenly ascend in the bass, other than starting back at the top of the scale) you continue to anticipate the final resolution, but because those "grace" notes maintain and the progression just keeps repeating, you never really get it until the song ends (on what was the first note of the progression).

Thatís my guess at least.


Re: Bob Dylan -- P.S.
:: Posted by markmmarkm on November 15, 2014

I bet had RF known of the Dylan untruths, he would not have cited him in his shortlist.


Re: Bob Dylan
:: Posted by markmmarkm on November 15, 2014

"Do you think John Lennon lied for money? Dylan? Hendrix? When we lose faith in our artists, our culture is extinguished." --RF

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?position=20&

Posted by timohara on November 15, 2014:

From my perspective, it doesnít matter if Bob Dylan has fabricated his entire life story in his memoirs and in interviews. I hear an essential truth in his music and words that exists apart from the person himself. I do not think he lied in his work.
This is exactly what I took RF to mean as well.
Sid


I took Fripp to mean that tho the named individuals might, say, lie to their sig other (e.g., "No your butt does not look fat in those jeans") or such, they would certainly not lie for money.

One of Dylanís works is Chronicles and I for one am glad I neither spent money to buy nor the time to read it for I WOULD FEEL RIPPED OFF IF I DID.

I used to be an avid fan of Dylanís until what -- for me -- was his first alienating action: getting preachy when newly a Christian (Slow Train Coming album).

I am not perfect (who is?) but integrity is very important to me and tho I freely acknowledge his great art, Dylan doesnít otherwise pass muster.

Isnít one of the, I assume, Fripp aphorisms at the bottom of these webpages something like "Success implies responsibility"?


Re: Coda Marine
:: Posted by DannyX on November 15, 2014

Itís the audio equivalent of one of those Escher staircases. ;)


What is the secret of Vroom's Coda Marine
:: Posted by matthusela on November 15, 2014

Can anyone explain what is going on with Vroomís Coda Marine that makes it feel as though the music is constantly stepping down? It canít really be, but it feels like the notes/chords are stepping down for minutes on end. Can someone explain?


Bob Dylan
:: Posted by timohara on November 15, 2014

From my perspective, it doesnít matter if Bob Dylan has fabricated his entire life story in his memoirs and in interviews. I hear an essential truth in his music and words that exists apart from the person himself. I do not think he lied in his work.
This is exactly what I took RF to mean as well.
Sid


Re: Hey hey hey -- goodbye?
:: Posted by markmmarkm on November 15, 2014

 albemuth wrote:

"I do not understand the recent discussion about lying.  Is the idea here that great artists are great people?  And what is the worst kind of lying?  About drugs?  About money? ..."

Again:

R Fripp stated:

"Do you think John Lennon lied for money? Dylan? Hendrix? When we lose faith in our artists, our culture is extinguished."

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?position=20&

So I posted a link to a Rolling Stone article that has Dylan lying early on in his career about running away from home and joining a carnival (or something untrue like that) and the heroin stuff and a remark by a Dylan expert (Heylin, as I recall) saying a chapter in Dylanís Chronicles is apparently completely made up.

Since I doubt Dylan wrote the book for free, it appears, yes, he will lie for money.

Here, I again found the story:

In many interviews he gave in the early Sixties, Dylan claimed to have dropped out of school at a young age to work in a traveling carnival.
Some Dylan experts feel that many of the fascinating details in his 2004 memoir Chronicles: Volume One are completely made up. "Jesus Christ, as far as I can tell almost everything in the Oh Mercy section of Chronicles is a work of fiction," Dylan biographer Clinton Helyin recently said.
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bob-dylan-admits-heroin-addiction-in-newly-released-1966-interview-20110523#ixzz3IbAN7jj9


Farewell Johnny
:: Posted by rogadaire on November 14, 2014

I echo the sentiment of random element 2 in that seeing the LOG for the first time as a teenager also changed my whole attitude to music and the concert-going experience. In that sense, the LOG performance at the Russell Club, Manchester in May 1980 (the first of 3 occasions I was to see them - the final being the Futurama festival in Leeds) was the most important gig I have ever been to. More important than seeing Discipline and the subsequent King Crimson a year or 2 later, and more important than seeing last incarnation of KC to play in the UK, at Shepherds Bush,a decade or so ago. When I hear discussions now about the best gigs people have been to, I cannot help but reflect that the significance and, indeed, enjoyability of any gig depends as much on the mindset of the person witnessing it as it does on the nominal musical qualities and abilities brought to bear by the people who happen to be on stage. Indeed, more so. In 1980 in a small and rather inauspicious club in Manchester my mind was ready to be changed, and changed it was. There was a rawness and directness to the LOG performance - not to mention a considerable unpredictable element given that no-one attending these gigs had any idea what to expect - to a degree I have not experienced by any band or performer since. Johnny was a big part of that. In terms of physique, he actually seemed too slight and wiry to be able to mount a sustained assault on his drum kit - but that impression quickly turned out to be a false one. Such a shame that his energetic clattering of drums was never properly captured on record. I shall not forget it.


Too bad, Johnny
:: Posted by randomelement2 on November 14, 2014

Sorry to read about the passing of Johnny Toobad. The League of Gentlemen changed my concert going experience forever. Up until that point, all of the concerts I had seen were by artists I knew playing music I knew. This was the first time I went to a concert of totally unfamiliar music (and, this being before the age of instant information, I didnít even know until 2 days before the concert that it was going to be dance music), and I had an awesome time. The LOG spoiled me for most other concerts though, unless theyíre totally improvised or the band takes major liberties with the music. So long, Johnny, and thanks for being part of a music altering experience.


Hey hey hey -- goodbye?
:: Posted by albemuth on November 14, 2014

I do not understand the recent discussion about lying.  Is the idea here that great artists are great people?  And what is the worst kind of lying?  About drugs?  About money?

This comes to mind after reading recent articles about Bill Cosby.  If the accusations turn out to be true, then I probably will not be able to enjoy his monologues anymore.  But does that make him any less skilled?  Any less of an artist? 


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