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Introduction and Notice
:: Posted by Progrockdude on November 28, 2015

Hello, this is Progrockdude. Not sure if I’m going to be posting here a lot (I probably won’t lol), but I’m here to officially say hi to this community and what not (and probably not be as welcomed |) ). Well, that and another thing.

In the news section, the story "A Zinger at Jack Singer" should’ve gave a link to the photo gallery of that show, but instead gave a link to the review of that very show from the "VaVoom in Vancouver" article. If Sid/DGM is reading this, whoopsy-daisy....
Whoopsy and indeed, daisy. The perils of updating links while on the move. Thanks for spotting it

:: Posted by emory0 on November 27, 2015

No: You guys are wrong. Forget personal "taste": Your taste is WRONG, I tells ya: TCoL is great, and 10 or 20 years from now you’ll say the same thing and also deny you ever disliked it. Come on! Frying Pan? The Construction of Light? LTiA Pt 4? Even Prozac Blues and Oyster Soup? Are you guys nuts? Some of these songs are as heavy as a ton of bricks (which weighs a lot, I’d say). This beats the hell out of the early Proggy Crim records. The Double Duo was, in some ways, the completion of the arc begun in 1981 with Discipline.

I DO however agree that Level 5 features performances that in many ways exceed the studio versions, but then again live Crimson has always been better than canned.

:: Posted by DanAnderson on November 27, 2015

I think the major shortcoming of TCoL is the fact that the beast didn’t tour and rework it as they went along. They did it totally in the studio. Bearing that in mind I think it was a good representation of the next logical step after the ProjeKcts. The Power To Believe benefited from introducing the numbers while on the TCoL tour and it really shows on the studio CD.

Hmmmmmmm...a TCoL box or a combo ProjeKcts/TCoL/TPTB box set would be killer. The addition of Pat and Trey in the mixing bowl turned out to be as powerful a rhythm section as the Wetton/Bruford team.

TCoL as a
:: Posted by CrumbledFingers on November 27, 2015

In the same way that Discipline was, in some ways, a showcase for a particular set of musical tools (guitar synthesizers, Chapman stick, Simmons drums), The ConstruKction of Light seems very technology-driven to me. The V-drums obviously, but it’s also the first album where Adrian used digital vocal effects so extensively. It’s most obvious on the opening track, but throughout the rest of the album, he’s not actually going back and overdubbing the vocal harmonies--they are being generated in real time, which explains how he could appear to be harmonizing with himself on stage. At the time, that was a pretty neat technological trick.

The other thing I’ll say about TCoL is that, unlike a lot of Crimson’s catalogue, it maintains a consistent quality all the way through it. There aren’t any drastic tonal shifts, interruptions, or hairpin turns. I love all of the band’s albums, but I have to admit they have occasionally fallen short in delivering that sustained, dominating presence that carries you from the beginning of an album to its end. In the Court did it. Red did it. Discipline did it. The others, while all great in their own ways, sometimes come off as... disjointed? by comparison. TCoL manages to stay on-track, and I think Adrian deserves much of the credit for his "willful restraint" in not writing a ballad for this album.

The ConstruKction of Light
:: Posted by GratefulJerry on November 27, 2015

I’m really surprised that there isn’t going to be a box for TCoL because it’s a time that is rich in both audio and video recordings. I do agree with most about the V drums but I also think that a lot of the problem (for me) with the original album is that it sounds constructed in the studio. I know that most of is based on ProjeKcts stuff but it feels cobbled together in the studio. It wasn’t until the songs were road tested that they developed their own personality. I though it was part of the reason why they ended up road testing the songs that ended up on The Power to Believe before recording the album.

The Drive to 2016
:: Posted by davidly on November 27, 2015

It would appear that I just snagged two front row & center seats to the Crim in Berlin.

:: Posted by PPmINTY on November 27, 2015

No disrespect to the good folks of Roland... but like a lot of digital electronic instruments manufactured in the ’80s and ’90s, V-Drums were very much ’of their time’ and the sound of them hasn’t dated at all well.

I found V-Drums a lot more fun to play (good practice pads!) than they were to listen to, even in the hands of an expert practitioner like Pat Mastelotto. Frankly, I couldn’t see the point of all that physical effort just to make a human player sound like a cheap drum machine! No electronic percussion patches (even ones derived from samples) can compete with the real sounds made by real drum kits pushing real air molecules around in real sonic space. Sampled sounds have (novelty) value in the right context... but as the basis of an entire drum kit...?

I can also understand Bill Bruford’s viewpoint that he had personally taken electronic drums as far as he could (citing many of the technical disasters encountered with Mr Simmons’ finest). He wished to return to playing real acoustic drums and make mainly acoustic music (both with his later version[s] of Earthworks and with Michiel Borstlap). He continued to invent new ways of approaching The Drum Kit, but had come to realise that electronics were not the way to do that... not if he wanted to make musical recordings (and performances) that would stand the test of time, rather than sound contemporary to the period they were made. All electronic instruments have that tendency.

I personally think that, through their persistent (albeit pioneering) embrace of the very latest digital technology of the day, some of the music that King Crimson made in the studio throughout the ’80s to ’00s has dated less well than many of their earlier ’analogue’ efforts ("of their time").

I agree with the gentleman who said that if you want a ’representative’ recording of the Fripp/Belew/Gunn/Mastelotto combo, then you should probably pick "Level 5" off the shelf, rather than either "TCoL" or "TPtB".

I would also put forward the view that (for many of the reasons given previously) I nowadays find ProjeKCT One to be the more satisfying listen of all of KC’s fractal ProjeKCts. If Robert’s intention at the time of the Double Trio’s fractalisation (re: the idea of having three V-Drum players) was for King Crimson  to make music that sounded even more ’electronic’, it’s probably not a road that would have led anywhere interesting in the long term.

FraKctured AKcionadi
:: Posted by davidly on November 26, 2015

I felt that the one theretofore unexplored compositional element was a reconstruKction of perkcussion, had no idea during the run through the Projekcts that it’d be the Vs, yet felt thereafter more than happy with what I had to be happy with TCoL. Pat’s interplay on the title with the three strings made more than five senses to me. I dj’d once a month for a couple of years and played the opening five forty-nine every single time and every single time witnessed a room moved unawares. I’d’ve spun FraKctured but they’d’ve broken something; or might’ve exposed Larks’ IV but they’d’ve crapped their new Berliner pants. Nah, drums weren’t required for that album and Pat proved it as far as I’m concerned.

ProjeKcting your KC ExpecKtations on KC2000 by use of tunnel vision
:: Posted by Erik_Skysawed on November 26, 2015

The Thrak Box is not even a month old, and I doubt many have digested the full repercussions after immersing themselves into full ThraKaTTak/ATTAKcATTRrak experience, and what is the reaction? The wicked drum sound of TCoL and why the DGM troopers should skip a potential TCoL Box, as it would not be effective as a KC-fetish attribute?


Here is why KC2000 (where TCoL is only one part!) is special:

* A three year period of ProjeKcts, with lots of improvisation, in instruments and “instant” composition

* Having now access to (almost) all ProjeKcts I-IV concerts, we can witness the development of new Crimson classics, in particular “Deception of the thrush”

* The music pointing to all kinds of Parallel Universes (in true 90s fashion, where more were involved to have their go at “Collision Music”, i.e. the (im)probable merging of different musical styles which may appear – for the untrained ear – remote).

* Were there more than 4 ProjeKcts? Wasn’t there one with Pat Mastelloto & RHVL? What about any remixed forms like BPMM’s “XtraKcts & ArtifaKcts”. Have we missed out on other possible identities?

* The coming together of KC2000, ProjeKct X (the improvisational ProjeKction of the TCoL sessions), having a 2000 update on Fracture, and a fourth Larks’.

* The remarkable KC2000 tour in Europe (with the V-Drums!), with the improvisational ProjeKcts showing up at least once per concert?

* Having not only an extensive aural documentation of the ProjeKcts and KC2000 Euro tour concerts, but also Bootleg TV , so more opportunities to watch than one can digest.

* KC2000 was the only other band to be able to play “Heroes” correctly!

So a TCoL Box may be the first to go for, but it will be much more than a mere morphing into Digital Surround. Instead it would make sense to have besides the obligatory 40th and 50th anniversary mixes, an update of possible KC2000 by not only a BPMM interpretation, but also an ambient version by The Orb’s Dr. Patterson & Fehlmann, or if one could convince Bill Laswell to have a ReconstrucKtion and Translation mix. Maybe one could fetch David Bowie this time around to contribute to the finale of Larks’ IV? Plus a detailed exposé by Sid Smith on how the many possibilities of KC2000 ultimately narrowed into KC2001/KC2003.

And while we are it, what happened with the Other Boxes?

1) The Robert Fripp Trilogy: Sacred songs / Peter Gabriel (the second one) / Exposure  (in that order, thank you).

2) The drive to 1981 box (Exposure / God save the Queen/Under Heavy Manners / Let the Power Fall) with liner notes by Peter Hammill, The Roches, David Byrne, Danielle Dax and Brian Eno, and as an exclusive Amos Poe’s “Subway riders” to have at least one DVD video as a bonus.

3) The road to 1984 box (a.k.a. KC Mark IV Discipline/Beat/3 of a perfect pair) with as a goody the rhythm tracks of Discipline (the album, not the composition) to be programmed into either an African percussion piece or a Balinese gamelan piece both in Digital Surround, plus liner notes by Steve Reich and Philip Glass, plus a full photograph report by the Master Tony Levin himself, as well as the RHVL’s experience with Japanese Delicatessen (as evidenced by the Three of a Perfect Pair Japan Tour video material) has led to a strong involvement into a full exploration of the British Cake dimension in the 21th century.

4) The Sylvian/Fripp box has been put on hold for indeterminate period.

Next box
:: Posted by GregK1 on November 26, 2015

I would be very thankful for a comprehensive box incorporating the ProjeKcts, ConstruKction of Light and Power to Believe, but especially the ConstruKction of Light album. That is one of the very best records Crimson put out and I would love to hear more!

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