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Cutty Sark
:: Posted by nighthealer on June 27, 2014

The url for the video on Facebook is:


It might not work if you don’t have a Facebook account.

It is completely surreal and well worth watching if you can though. 21CSM played by about 10 people on weird brass instruments wearing weird costumes circling round on scooters!

The Cutty Sark!?
:: Posted by albemuth on June 27, 2014

The London history museum The Cutty Sark (as in "the clipper ship") features a band that plays horns and drums, dresses in odd costumes, and runs around on Segway scooters.  One of the tunes that it plays is 21st Century Schizoid Man.  Someone posted a video of this strange cultural collision on facebook.

Nameless Lovers
:: Posted by albemuth on June 26, 2014

Thanks JBlock for reminding me of the clip of Absent Lovers from March 10, 1982.  Now that I finally listen to it, I think that it’s the piece I heard at Princeton just four days earlier.  But I suspect that "(nameless)" on the Mining Rocks bootleg is something different.  "(nameless)" was a fairly simple piece.  The bassline is in 4/4 and has a "4-and kick" to it.  The first part goes back and forth between two textures: a repeated minor chord and the interlocking 5/4-type guitar lines.  Then there is a cut and we hear just Tony’s bass and another spidery line from Fripp (but lower down on the guitar).  Then Bill and Adrian come in, with Adrian laying some very cosmic sounds over the top: big washes of sound.  It’s a simple track but, I liked it a great deal.  Maybe this is one of those crazy situations where the bad recording makes the piece sound better or more interesting?

In any case, I cannot help but think that late 1981 and early 1982 contain evidence of yet another "Crimson Not Taken."  This particular CNT would have been a more thorough elaboration and exploration of Discipline.

Re; McDonald by starman.
:: Posted by Valhalla on June 26, 2014

You are a big Ian McDonald fan then. Regarding who composed what way back in the ’dark ages’ on Crimson’s debut album, it is impossible to tell unless you were there. I have noticed over time that the ’credits’ for a song or title, can be a grey area for some artists. The Mark 2 lineup of Deep Purple credited everything to the 5 members, as did the original 4 members of Black Sabbath. Surely all members were not contributing to every song on those albums? But who can tell? Then there is the classic Lennon/McCartney scenario. Another example is the Supertramp songwriting ’duo’, Davies/Hodgson?
Who wrote or composed or arranged what, is a ’dark’ area for many bands I would think! Ian McDonald played his part no doubt on that early Crimson, brilliantly!

Ian McDonald's birthday
:: Posted by Frank78 on June 26, 2014

Happy Birthday to Ian! I hope he’s doing fine. I think no one can deny Ian’s key contribution to KC’s first two albums in many aspects: beautiful and fine compositions (I talk to the wind, The court of the crimson king, possibly Cadence and cascade, Cat food, The devil’s triangle...), virtuosic playing (many memorable sax & flute passages and solos), song arrangements (probably of almost all songs of the 1st album). And let’s not forget he contributed his magnificent sax playing to One more red nightmare and Starless again in 1974
Also, the LP McDonald & Giles (in some way, a lost KC album) is absolutely wonderful. In fact, it’s one of my all-time favourite albums. And I’m sure it’s many people’s too.
I had the privilege of meeting Ian McDonald, talk to him and stretch his hand in Madrid, 2003, when whe played there with the 21st Century Schizoid Band. He seemed to me a very humble and warm person.
As far as I know, Ian and Robert Fripp appreciate one another very much. Also, Ian played together with Jakko and Mel when they all were members of the 21st CSB. So, I just hope that, at some point, the current KC lineup calls Ian McDonald up to join them on stage for some dates. That would be SO ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!!!

Happy Bday to Ian.
:: Posted by starmore on June 25, 2014

I got in some trouble with the Venal Leader with an inarticulate post that stated Ian should have been involved with the re-remastering of ITCOTCK and  that Fripp “owed” him for basically being the primary architect of the success of that album and thus the foundation of the name “King Crimson “. That is pushing it a bit (sometimes it seems the only way to get noticed online is to be “provocative”; when people agree they are not as motivated to respond). The main point is just that Ian’s contribution to both Court  (and some of  the Poseidon material) was simply HUGE

 Industry-wise Lake was the breakout star/lead singer, but the rest really featured Ian in a huge way. Schizoid Man did also feature the first glimpse of  the future trademark Fripp laser soloist  and guitar gymnastics and was the most group written tune, but the overdubbed horn section and twisting  (almost Belew-y, certainly Dolph-y) avant solo are 100% Ian.

“I talk to the Wind “was mostly about McDonald and Giles, a Beatles-esque  flute and drum showcase with good lyrics.

Greg Lake claimed “Epitaph” was basically his song (he also said the guitar part of Court was his), and to be fair Lake’s future work does sound a lot like “Epitaph “(and the guitar bit on the end verse of “Court”) . But not the arrangement, which is a wonderful musical orchestration by Ian on ‘tron and clarinet and towards the end is again a multi-tracked McDonald &Giles showcase. This type of ending became a template for future Crimson.   The same thing with the title track, Ian again outdoes himself with the vocal arrangement, the basic song itself ,tasteful Mellotronics, and the flute solo; then the ending is again basically McDonald and Giles.

“Moonchild” and the improv bring Fripp forward in a tentative way (If you you know MST3K,  the film Monster a Go-Go features a very familiar sounding dream-like Jazz  noodling guitar as we see a “monster” walking down a hallway, and Joel says “He’s sneaking past Robert Fripp’s room!” ), yet again Ian comes in with a vibe solo that just makes it work and bridges the guitar/drum interplay. It was well said that Ian contributed “sheer musicality”. He was like the Gil Evans of the band and really deserves a lot of the credit.


It is really sad that “Birdman” was not a Crimso song, and kind of ironic that Ian’s guitar playing on that tune is so Fripp-y (with a touch of Badge-Clapton /Harrison thrown in)

Oh why was there never a follow up to Mcdonald and Giles !!!

It should be re-mastered too!  In short, Ian rules! 

McD & G was remastered in 2002 with liner notes by yours truly


Ian McDonald
:: Posted by Frippouille on June 25, 2014

Happy birthday to Ian McDonald! And thanks to him for the sublime and timeless music of the grrreat grrreat record «McDonald & Giles».

With or without Belew
:: Posted by DannyX on June 25, 2014

After Adrian joined the band, I don’t think they played any material from previous incarnations except instrumentals (and possibly a heavily distorted "Schizoid Man"). It seems only fair that they do they same now...any pre-Adrian material, but only instrumentals from his tenure with the band.

Absent Lovers
:: Posted by jblock on June 25, 2014

I believe the track Albemuth refers to as "(nameless)" is Absent Lovers, available on the March 10, 1982 download. While there are lots of downloads from the end of 1981, I agree that more downloads from early 1982 would be welcomed. I suggest a bundle of the short US tour from late February through early March 1982.

Three Cheers
:: Posted by davidly on June 25, 2014

First, to Ian McDonald on his birthday. It is nice that this forum offers a place for such recognition, and recognition of his irreplaKceable contributions to Crimson.

SeKcond, John Slywka’s USA touch to Road to Red is brilliant. Pun intended.

Third, but not last (maybe even first?), ZaneCox offers a great way to look at our nightly adventures and perhaps a nice strategy for those who have trouble getting their day started. Swing your perspeKctive.

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